Much a doo about ... everything.

[Palatinus]

I wanted to take a few minutes and talk about Artifact and how we push to that next level.

The Artifact War Machine. Artifact is a raiding guild and we have to be constantly improving our play. Our focus on progression 25s is as strong as ever, and I want to build on that. This week we are going to try something new.

Tuesday/Wednesday: Progression raiding. Veterans, we've got two raid days, be on time and be prepared to focus on making speedy, efficient kills. To maximize the use of our time we will avoid as much farm content that we can. This means after we down the lower spire bosses we head directly to the wing we are working on. As we wind down on Wednesday, we can consider visiting any farm content left in our dust.

Thursday: "Artifact raiding". Non-vets, here is where you shine. Let's form up and spend the day getting you the experience needed for the next level of raiding. I'd love to see us spending as much time as we can in ICC, but our goal is to be successful by working on content within our means. If we have the team for ICC 10/25, let's make it happen. However, 10/25 ToC or even Ulduar are not out of the picture.

What about 10s?: I think 10s are a great way to learn and grow together, but if the runs are not happening we are not getting that extra bang for our buck. Over the next few days I will be spending some time creating pre-made 10s teams. We can make better use of the weekends and off days without burning ourselves out. I encourage everyone to spend some time and think about your schedule and what would best fit you. These teams will operate with little intervention from myself, but that doesn't mean I am not watching. Our goal is to get things done, but that doesn't mean we can't have fun doing it.

Everyone has a unique schedule and there are only so many days in the week. It is easy to burn ourselves out and fell overwhelmed to the point where this game is no longer fun. A raid schedule is a work in progress that never is complete. Let's do what we do best and we can iron out the issues together.

The Artifact Family - come for the raiding, stay for the people! I think we can all agree that the best part of Artifact is the people. After a tough day at work (or for you youngins school), nothing beats logging in to laugh (and cry) together.

Recruiting. We have more than enough talent and people to continue to be extremely picky in who we recruit. Let's put in that extra effort when a new application comes in. Dig up all the dirt and let's bring in only those who are a perfect fit. We can be impressed by skill, but convinced by personality.

Friends and family. Everyone wants to play with their friends and their family and we are more than happy to invite them. If they are expecting to raid, please explain our system and how it works. If they really want to raid they will have to put in an application.

I'm not your buddy, guy. Artifact talent development. It makes me very proud each and every time our members reach out to each other and I'd love to see that trend continue. Therefore, I think it would be worth while to help our new recruits and even some members become more involved in the guild by setting them up with a veteran/diplomat of the same class. If you are willing to learn, we can teach them the ropes, work on their rotations and gear, setup those "must have" mods and share all those tricks you've learned over the years. Maybe even bring them by Trog's cave . But remember, please don't feed the troll!

In summary, we've been given the chance to continue the work of a bald Orc who put his heart, soul and free time into that what we have all come to love. Let's do him proud and make it happen. For Artifact!

--
Palatinus

[troginator]

looks good i hope the alts and ****** team is happy about the 25s.

i foresee them still being low on people.

the vets that didn't show up who dont wanna raid on alts are just going to continue not to show up. not probably cause they don't want to help. but because they don't have alts they wanna spend time on. and as far as the "casual" people still learning. they are casual because they dont show up to raids consistently. and who knows if they can make Thursday anyways. but its defiantly worth a try.

What about BOB? and 10s?

like ive said before i could care less about 10s now. we will never manage to get 2 10s with 2 aggressive tanks. with brontes gone. so cripple the 3rd 10s? to make the 1 VET 10 successful instead of 2 equally useless shit storms? no we cant do this we are not late night cause people will complain. but c'est la vie

i mean how can i really make a post and not be a negative Nancy sorry but there it is.

[Juicybebe]

Trog, we have a lot of great players in this guild and I think you need to put some faith in their abilities.

As for 10s, we definitely have the make-up to form one more very strong Vet team. I also agree that we may be a bit short to form an equally strong 3rd team. So the question is, how do we go about distributing?

In my opinion, the success of a raid team all comes down to scheduling and attendance. So who will organize the new teams schedules? Who will take the administrative leadership?
Once that is figured out, then it comes down to who's available at the time you want to raid? If you have 15 Vets that want to do 10s, take the 10 that can commit to a multi-day weekly raid schedule. Put the others Vets, who may only be available a day or two, in their own 10s team. This 10s team can shoot to get together once a week and just do a one day clear. The multi-day team can get together throughout the week and slowly work at their own pace.
I think a setup like this will help to accommodate to a big portion of our raiders limited availabilities.

Anyways, at the very least, I think a lot of what Palatinus wants to do is definitely worth trying. If it doesn't work out, adjustments can always be made. Let's try to smile and not stress too much about it.

[Palatinus]

I'm not going to pretend like I have all the answers. I spent a good chunk of time this weekend talking the schedule over with many players and all we can do is try. There is no point in losing hope and stressing over things that we can fine tune.

If attendance remains a problem maybe running a 3rd 25 isn't the answer. We've got more than enough vets, non-vets and late-night alts to get at 2-3 competative, static 10s starting on thrusday. There are no easy solutions, but I will do my best to make sure everyone has a place and to give that little push to get them started.

[Zall-Klos]

If there is a 10 team on thursday, can that same time continue on saturday early afternoon(EST time) or Sunday?

I'm hoping for a team that can run 2 days.

[Juicybebe]

Pala, do you have a couple of tentative team rosters that players can take a look at? Maybe they can start working out a schedule for a run this week.

[geriktheaul]

I will be happy to take on a multi-day veteran 10's team. But as Matt noted, for those that don't have a desire to clear on multi-days, they can form a one day 10's raiding team.

This past weekend, we again juggled alot of position and time constraints. I know that raiders stepped into roles that they weren't accustomed too, in order to make the raid happen. I appreciate that. Your skill and patience helped us down what we did. I feel we cleared what one day of raiding affords a team of our mixed skills that day.

_________
I made mention of vets, only because we have stated in numerous places that we start with vets and fill in from there (loose translation). Please don't read into that too much. Part of being a vet is being reliable. Getting assigned to a team will demand you to give your reliability.

Anyways, thanks for the foundation post Pala. I look forward to your next assessment post.

Jerry

[Zall-Klos]

geriktheaul wrote:

This past weekend, we again juggled alot of position and time constraints. I know that raiders stepped into roles that they weren't accustomed too, in order to make the raid happen. I appreciate that. Your skill and patience helped us down what we did. I feel we cleared what one day of raiding affords a team of our mixed skills that day.

Well... we learned the Frost Giant. It was a challenging mini boss.

There is pretty no choice but to change role for 10. Without Brontes, Ghastias and Auriela, we kinda lose 3 tanks and 3 healers.

[Smucher]

Juicybebe wrote:

Want some cheese with that Whine? Trog, we have a lot of great players in this guild and I think you need to put some faith in their abilities. 10s are raids, too! As for 10s, we definitely have the make-up to form one more very strong Vet team. I also agree that we may be a bit short to form an equally strong 3rd team. So the question is, how do we go about distributing? Step up to the plate. In my opinion, the success of a raid team all comes down to scheduling and attendance. So who will organize the new teams schedules? Who will take the administrative leadership? Once that is figured out, then it comes down to who's available at the time you want to raid? If you have 15 Vets that want to do 10s, take the 10 that can commit to a multi-day weekly raid schedule. Put the others Vets, who may only be available a day or two, in their own 10s team. This 10s team can shoot to get together once a week and just do a one day clear. The multi-day team can get together throughout the week and slowly work at their own pace. I think a setup like this will help to accommodate to a big portion of our raiders limited availabilities. Good ideas are good. Let's have fun with it! Anyways, at the very least, I think a lot of what Palatinus wants to do is definitely worth trying. If it doesn't work out, adjustments can always be made. Let's try to smile and not stress too much about it.

fix'd.

[troginator]

IF the team for 10s is.

Jaedon, Revin
Trog, Pala, Jimmy, Marik. heals
Amaralli, Normen(or 400 of our mages), Gen, Gundam, Shinji, Gerik

everyone not on the team will complain they are on a lesser team.

if not and they are happy with team redemption re established. then good on ya. learn the fights and get better.

i mean who else do we have to tank.

skeletor? who never shows? alts? ghastias whos not playing? alts?

id like to live in a dream world of happiness for everyone but its not going to happen. at least for 10s, which is why ive avoided them these last 2 weeks.

[Kalliel-BM]

So Marcel, you've done it again....had high hopes with your 1st post until half ways down the line BAM you did it. And the 2nd, well we just won't talk 'bout that.

Pala - nice post , as usual. Changing up things is always good and keeps it fresh. People will be people and if they can come to 25s, they will. If, say, a meteor suddenly appears outta the sky, while driving home to raid, falls on their car, well they did have good intentions. Sometimes SHIT Happens and ya know...ya just can't make it.

10s I will start by saying this is only IMO; I personally would love to be on a set team. That is to say a set "ten" man team, no subs involved. I absolutely hate having subs, this was one of the main reasons Kral and I stopped leading a team. It is a pain in the ass, you always feel bad and you never have that satisfied feeling when done raiding since someone is always bitching! 10s are fun, Hell raiding is suppose to be fun...hmmmm starting to look like a wall of text. Nuff said

[Juicybebe]

You could separate Revin and Jaedon into two different teams. Each team only needs one guild/geared Main tank.

In my 10s, I have Minicholo run as the second tank.

[Lauren (Crosse)]

Tuesday & Wednesday as progression days
I like the changes made for Tuesday and Wednesday. The days we have the most people (for more optimal group make up) and on a fresh new weekday we should spend the bulk of our raiding on new content so that we can have a higher chance of success in progression.

Thursday as a second 25-man
I have a mixed feelings about this one. I like the fact that we are trying to get everyone and their grandmother raiding time, but my question is: Is it possible for us? And: What is the exact reason we are doing this second 25-man group?

Right now, it seems possible to get this second 25-man running especially from moving the raid from Saturday to Thursday (which screams, "PRIORITY!") but why is it a priority to us? Is it just to accomodate all players in the guild interested in raiding? Is it so that we can all have fun in the sun doing two hella long raids every week?

Or is it because, like other hard-core guilds, we need to have these non-vets and alts up to par in terms of experience and gear so that when the time comes and we need them for our Tuesday/Wednesday 25-man during hard mode (or whatever it is), that we can pull them up to raid?

Because although I like the fact that we are trying our best to make this second 25-man work, I do get a split reaction from many guild members. Being that WoW is definitely not priority to many people, I do feel that it will eventually tire people out (or is more time than people want to spend). I love to play on my alt and raid for manymuchhours but for some reason, I do not feel majority of the players share my enthusiasm. I'm all up for this second raid to work, and it probably would not tire me out because I love WoW to pieces, but do we have enough people with that outlook? If we're focused on one raid and dedicate time (Thursdays as well if need be) I don't want it to hinder our progress. But well, that is just my thought on that.

10-Man ICCs
WE CAN ACHIEVE MORE THAN ONE 10-MAN ICC RAID EVERY WEEK. For God's sake, we have 35+ players. But I have concluded that our guild is very nice. In fact, sometimes we are too nice (to be competitive). Okay, so I may be exaggerating a few things, but let's try to be mean here. We have the players to make another great 10-man, but given our circumstances, we cannot make three teams. There will be people left out and/or there will be a sh*tload of subs. If we really want another 10-man team, we need to cut the "niceness" and just make one group instead of splitting it to two.

I see a bunch of players who WANT to do tens. The problem is that out of that bunch, we have like two-three tanks, three-four healers and a crapton of dps. Like Matt said, someone make a team. We have a couple people willing to lead it (Gerik, Jaedon, etc), which is wonderful but get together the ten who are willing to spend more than just one afternoon on raiding. I think two days at at least four hours each will be somewhat realistic. We raid 25-mans Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, but there is SO MUCH TIME to do 10s--on friday, saturday, sunday and monday! Do it in the morning, afternoon or night--but it does take commitment. Set a date and time and don't flake out!

Form a team and figure out and times BEFORE STARTING. Make sure they can meet for XX day and XX day for at least four hours. It won't work if you raid together one day, get to plague wing, and then lose like five people because they can't meet up another day. Then you'll have to find new players and it's just going to be that much more difficult. ICC past saurfang is not easy enough to just take new people and/or alts every week and plow through bosses. You're going to wipe on trash and if you get to the bosses you're going to waste attempts.

Separating Revin and Jaeden into two different teams (for a second and third 10-man) may work, but I think that's been causing unsuccessful groups for the last couple weeks because of lack of people available. For the sake of at least having another group in there--we need to cut it to one for now. I think the problem is that we've been TRYING to get all the people in there, and it just ain't working. Once things become easier from doing it in 25-mans or whatever, I'm sure it'll be easier and easier to get groups together informally to do the bosses.

I like the new thoughts of Tuesday/Wednesday and progression. I like the idea of another 25-man but I just hope we can keep it up if we're making it a priority (sacrificing Thursdays). I really want another group to start a 10-man because I think it's fun and the experience is great for 25s.

[{Skélètor}]

troginator wrote:

skeletor? who never shows? alts? ghastias whos not playing? alts?

Trog you do realize that im on every tuesday and thursday. and every week im on before invites, and every week i Pst when they ask for tanks. and im told, to sign for Saturday, or read the forums because im not a vet i wont get in on 25 man raids. As for saturday raids, I try to make them i have the last 2 weeks, its hard for me on saturday, beuase im on the east coast. 3PM is mid day and 1 of the only 2 days i have off in the week. For me to raid on that day requires me to drop anything else i have planed, or wake up early on the only day i can sleep in a little and get stuff done before raid. Dont spend time with my wife at all who i see for about a total of 6 hours in a week.

Im there when the guild needs me, where it be tank or latley dps.
so get off your high horse.

[Brontes-Artifact]

I wasn't able to read through all those long posts but I hope what they said was:

SIR YES SIR I LIKE IT SIR AND I WILL BE THERE!